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Thread: Bomb threats again rattle Jewish centers

  1. #51
    Moderator purplekitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarsparilla View Post
    (Disclaimer: I still agree about labels and discourse and more civility, I'm just trying to follow the logic trail so I understand where PK is coming from.) So, to follow through on PK's sexist example. In the example, your husband is being sexist in that moment. He's saying a sexist thing. But sexist is not part of who he is, so when he knows better (PK tells him) he does better. Thus, the birther assholes (sorry that label just slipped out) are being racist, but are not, at their core, racists.
    Quote Originally Posted by villanelle View Post
    This is pretty much where I'm sitting. I do think Trump feels he's superior due to his race (among other things). I do think he's racist. But I also agree that it doesn't do much good to keep calling his supporters and voters racist, and that most of them are not racist.

    I guess I also feel like it's a continuum, and pinpointing the exact point it becomes racist is all but impossible. Just as PK's husband isn't an -ist, even though he occasionally has -ist thoughts--he's on the continuum, but not far enough along that I or she would label him a sexist. One can have a few racist thoughts and not be a racist. It has to do with frequency, severity, and degree, I think.
    Yes, to both of these!

    I think the catalyst, the basis, whatever you want to call it, is oftentimes started by an -ist (the birther nonsense was likely started by a racist trying to delegitimize a black president, for instance). But as the lie gains steam and more people pick up on it, they do so out of ignorance, not because they too are racist.

    I really think it's why many people who support Trump are genuinely surprised and hurt by being called racists. Because they do not see themselves believing certain things based on feeling superior over a race of people. They genuinely believe these things are true. It's what they've been sold as the truth, by the president himself who clearly doesn't think factchecking before spouting off nonsense is necessary for anything. It's ignorant, but there's a lot of ignorance out there in the world. Not much deep or critical thinking going on.

  2. #52
    Full Sponsor TapToTalk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by villanelle View Post
    What if it is a more positive stereotype? If someone thinks black people are all great dancers or asian people are super smart, how does that translate into them thinking they are superior? I'm superior because someone else is smarter than me, or has better rhythm? Or are those not racist, but thinking black people are lazy is?
    So called positive stereotypes can be just as damaging as negative ones. Saying Asians are "super smart" somewhat demeans the extra effort they happen to put in. African Americans don't see it as positive that they are just recognized for their entertainment and/or athletic abilities. It's a way of putting people into a box that isn't necessarily true for an individual.

    If I'm told "You must be rich and really good with money" it really isn't received as a compliment. I never wanted to be a lawyer either..

  3. #53
    Nihongo dame desu villanelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TapToTalk View Post
    So called positive stereotypes can be just as damaging as negative ones. Saying Asians are "super smart" somewhat demeans the extra effort they happen to put in. African Americans don't see it as positive that they are just recognized for their entertainment and/or athletic abilities. It's a way of putting people into a box that isn't necessarily true for an individual.

    If I'm told "You must be rich and really good with money" it really isn't received as a compliment. I never wanted to be a lawyer either..
    I agree that they are just as unfair. I'm just questioning where those things fall if racists thoughts require a sense of superiority, like Shaena's definition. My point is that even stereotypes not rooted in superiority are still racist, in part because they can still be damaging.

  4. #54
    Moderator purplekitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by villanelle View Post
    I agree that they are just as unfair. I'm just questioning where those things fall if racists thoughts require a sense of superiority, like Shaena's definition. My point is that even stereotypes not rooted in superiority are still racist, in part because they can still be damaging.
    Any racism can be damaging, but this is a good example of why not every racist thing someone believes makes the person a racist, it makes them ignorant. If someone believes Asians are super smart or Jews are really good with money, they're ignorant because they believe a stereotype. People who are racist wouldn't think good stereotypes about a group of people, because racists feel superior to those people.

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