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Thread: Atheism and Stephen Fry

  1. #11
    Moderator Shaena's Avatar
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    I agree with PK. My biggest issue with organized religion is the whole god has a plan thing. I can't wrap my brain around other people being chosen to suffer, so I can learn to be a better person? That I can never wrap my brain around. Nor do I want to. It's dehumanizing and distasteful to me, and always will be.

    That being said, religious tradition was so ingrained in me, as a child, that I take great comfort still in those traditions. I could certainly choose my fellowship without being a part of religion, but I like the community I found there.

  2. #12
    Tart JoyW's Avatar
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    Suffering produces good. Yeah, um, not always. Sometimes suffering just produces more suffering.
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  3. #13
    Moderator purplekitty's Avatar
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    Btw, puddleglum, the wrongly convicted people who never get their convictions overturned, is that God being bad? The wrongly convicted who have been put to death, why isn't God intervening in that like you seem to think he did in Brendan Dassey's case? Why isn't he good to everyone?

  4. #14
    I'm just here for the lulz. Sarsparilla's Avatar
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    I just finished a seven week course in the Christian Worldview and was sure all over again that I made the right choice for myself leaving Christianity behind me. Every time a hard question like the above comes up, the answer was something about how God's ways are not our ways and all will be clear in time, or you know, not clear, and you can question it, but the final answer will always be because God's ways are not our ways. When Job FINALLY got to talk to God about all the suffering Job experienced, he ended up being satisfied with God's ways simply because he got to dialogue with the Almighty. Job never got an explanation. He just decided to accept it. And then God showed mercy and gave him all his shit back. Except for his dead children.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplekitty View Post
    Btw, puddleglum, the wrongly convicted people who never get their convictions overturned, is that God being bad? The wrongly convicted who have been put to death, why isn't God intervening in that like you seem to think he did in Brendan Dassey's case? Why isn't he good to everyone?
    God has shown his goodness to us in creating us and giving us all of the good things we experience. The problem is that we are unaware of how evil we are and think that we have a right to a happy life. Most of us seem to be good because we compare ourselves to other people; if we could compare ourselves with God's absolute goodness we would see that we deserve nothing except eternal condemnation. Those who are wrongly convicted of crimes are still getting a better deal than they actually deserve. Instead of worrying about our fate during this life we should be preparing for the time we will face God's judgment after we die. Here is a site where you can find out what you need to know:

    http://carm.org/answers-for-seekers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarsparilla View Post
    I just finished a seven week course in the Christian Worldview and was sure all over again that I made the right choice for myself leaving Christianity behind me. Every time a hard question like the above comes up, the answer was something about how God's ways are not our ways and all will be clear in time, or you know, not clear, and you can question it, but the final answer will always be because God's ways are not our ways.
    We are finite people who are dealing with an infinite God. Of course we can't understand all that he is doing and must simply accept the fact that he knows what is best for us and we do not.

    When Job FINALLY got to talk to God about all the suffering Job experienced, he ended up being satisfied with God's ways simply because he got to dialogue with the Almighty. Job never got an explanation. He just decided to accept it. And then God showed mercy and gave him all his shit back. Except for his dead children.
    God gave Job twice as much as he had before. He had lost seven sons and three daughters; he was given seven more sons and three more daughters at the end. His original children will be restored to him at the resurrection. This life we experience now is only a small part of our total existence. We have no right to form an opinion on God's justice until we know what lies ahead of us after we die.
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  6. #16
    Premier Sponsor Mare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
    God has shown his goodness to us in creating us and giving us all of the good things we experience. The problem is that we are unaware of how evil we are and think that we have a right to a happy life. Most of us seem to be good because we compare ourselves to other people; if we could compare ourselves with God's absolute goodness we would see that we deserve nothing except eternal condemnation. Those who are wrongly convicted of crimes are still getting a better deal than they actually deserve. Instead of worrying about our fate during this life we should be preparing for the time we will face God's judgment after we die. Here is a site where you can find out what you need to know:

    http://carm.org/answers-for-seekers


    We are finite people who are dealing with an infinite God. Of course we can't understand all that he is doing and must simply accept the fact that he knows what is best for us and we do not.


    God gave Job twice as much as he had before. He had lost seven sons and three daughters; he was given seven more sons and three more daughters at the end. His original children will be restored to him at the resurrection. This life we experience now is only a small part of our total existence. We have no right to form an opinion on God's justice until we know what lies ahead of us after we die.
    This is absolutely horrifying. We deserve eternal condemnation? Why? Just for being? Not the God I want in my life. New children make up for ones killed? Also disgusting.

  7. #17
    Moderator Shaena's Avatar
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    What a joyless existence.

  8. #18
    Oh, For cry-eyed! Ebraday's Avatar
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    I refuse to believe in a God who thinks we have no right to happiness and only eternal condemnation. What kind of "father" wants that for his children?

  9. #19
    Moderator purplekitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
    God has shown his goodness to us in creating us and giving us all of the good things we experience. The problem is that we are unaware of how evil we are and think that we have a right to a happy life. Most of us seem to be good because we compare ourselves to other people; if we could compare ourselves with God's absolute goodness we would see that we deserve nothing except eternal condemnation. Those who are wrongly convicted of crimes are still getting a better deal than they actually deserve. Instead of worrying about our fate during this life we should be preparing for the time we will face God's judgment after we die. Here is a site where you can find out what you need to know:

    http://carm.org/answers-for-seekers
    What a sad, sad way to think and live. Even when my faith was greatest, I never believed in such a horrible father.

    You know, people basically tell me now that I should hedge my bets, even if there is no god. Believe "just in case."

    I feel like I want to say the same to you. That you should live your life and enjoy it without such a judgmental asshole as a father. Because when you die and are nothing more than a memory and a dead body, instead of this fantasy of a paradise, you'll have wasted your entire actual life living in such fear and loathing of yourself. It's really pretty pathetic.

    Oh, and I'm not interested in links to sites to find "all I need to know." I've studied Christianity for many years as a Christian myself, and it's why I'm an atheist now. This is a debate site. You're supposed to debate the topic.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplekitty View Post
    What a sad, sad way to think and live. Even when my faith was greatest, I never believed in such a horrible father.

    You know, people basically tell me now that I should hedge my bets, even if there is no god. Believe "just in case."

    I feel like I want to say the same to you. That you should live your life and enjoy it without such a judgmental asshole as a father. Because when you die and are nothing more than a memory and a dead body, instead of this fantasy of a paradise, you'll have wasted your entire actual life living in such fear and loathing of yourself. It's really pretty pathetic.

    Oh, and I'm not interested in links to sites to find "all I need to know." I've studied Christianity for many years as a Christian myself, and it's why I'm an atheist now. This is a debate site. You're supposed to debate the topic.
    This.

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